[Rovernet] Olds vs Buick heads-was 3liter v8 for sale

Tue Nov 12 11:13:39 EST 2013

Hi Gross (and anyone else who is still awake),
The cobwebs are clearing. The one significant advantage to the Olds 
heads is the fact that they have the valves located on the cylinder 
center line. For any given bore size, the Olds heads allow larger valves 
than the Buick/Rover heads. Both Wildcat and T/A heads also have this 
feature. Olds heads require an Olds block( I think I still have two), 
Olds rockers, pushrods, head bolts, valves and valve springs. Rockers 
oil through the head but not exactly like Buick/Rover. Jetfire blocks 
used different main caps and main cap bolts as compared to the standard 
Buick or Olds blocks (not that it helped the bottom end stay together 
any better).

Rovermobiledly,
Kent K.

Scruggs Family wrote:
> Intriguing observation, Kent.  I do recall that TRACO worked with aluminum
> block engines for Can-Am but did not recall they were based on the 215 Olds
> engine.  Anyway I have written TRACO asking the question of why Olds vice
> Buick.  No bets on whether they take time to answer.
>
> I suppose the extra head bolt was necessary for reliability concerns in very
> high power applications.  Too, I wonder if they just made their own heads
> with huge runners.  I suppose there is a tradeoff between reduced weight and
> reliability and good breathing and wonder where those curves cross for those
> engines.
>
> I truly have no dog in this fight and whatever the outcome if fine with me.
> My comments are from gleaning information, correct or not, from thousands of
> car magazines over the years.  I hope we can arrive at a definitive answer
> here.
>
> Regards,
> Gross
>   
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Rovernet [mailto:rovernet-bounces at rovernet.org] On Behalf Of Kent
> Kinard
> Sent: Tuesday, November 12, 2013 9:35 AM
> To: Rovernet
> Subject: Re: [Rovernet] 3 Litre V8 for sale in US
>
> Hi Netters,
> Here we go again.  The carb on this engine is an Edelbrock, probably
> 500cfm.  Gross is correct about the Jetfire being the Olds turbocharged
> model.  My swimming coach bought a new 1963 Jetfire four-speed and took
> me for a ride.  That's how I became hooked on the aluminum V8 at age
> 16.  I bought both Jetfire and Skylark cars in 1974 and I still have
> some Jetfire parts.  Which brings me to the point.  If the Olds
> performance was inferior, Gross, why did TRACO choose to build the Olds
> version for their Can-Am engines?  Aftermarket stuff usually fits both
> engines...intakes, headers, ignition, camshafts, so there is no
> indication of inferiority from aftermarket development.  Mickey Thompson
> chose the Buick version for his Indy effort, but he quickly realized the
> limitation of the Buick head bolt arrangement.  I must admit, the intake
> ports on the Thompson engines were huge.  Bigger than anything I have
> seen on a Buick/Rover engine since.  I once owned one of his four Weber
> cross-ram setups.
>
> But now you've got me curious.  I'm going to go pull a set of Olds heads
> off the shelf and compare the ports to the Buick/Rover ports.  If anyone
> would like to play with the Jetfire turbo setup, I have one and it will
> fit on the Rover.  All it's missing are the water/alcohol tank and the
> exhaust manifolds.  It is really quite obsolete and the turbo scrolls
> backward compared to modern turbos.  The only really useful piece for
> anything other than restoration is the intake manifold.  It has an
> extremely low profile and could be adapted to a Holley 2V carb, if
> anyone needs a really low bonnet for some custom installation.  A
> mid-eighties Buick GN turbo could be used with a 2" SU in a draw-through
> installation, but it would be much simpler if you had the Jetfire
> right-hand exhaust manifold.
>
> Olds used bigger valves (but not by much).  The biggest difference in
> the heads, other than head bolts, is in the shape of the combustion
> chambers.  Buick used a semi-hemi fully machined chamber, whereas Olds
> used a conventional wedge chamber much like the heart shaped chambers
> currently in vogue for high performance Rovers.  Ian Richardson's
> Wildcat heads have provision for eighteen head bolts because he did cast
> some Olds style blocks with the extra bosses on the deck surface.  I am
> not sure if the new T/A heads have such a provision, but their V6 heads
> and blocks do.  I just can't see the Olds ports being very restricted by
> the extra head bolts, but I am going to take a look on Thursday.
>
> More later...
>
> Roveroverboostedly,
> Kent K.
>
>
> Scruggs Family wrote:
>> I'm certain that Dr. McCarthy intended to say "Jetfire" vice "Skylark."  I
>> recall this variant of the Oldsmobile F-85 was the first production
>> turbocharged car.  Although both the Buick and Olds engines were aluminum
>> V-8s the Olds used one more head bolt which went through the already
>> tortured intake tract guaranteeing restricted breathing and no subsequent
>> development from the aftermarket manufacturers.  Summer of '66 a friend
> and
>> I drove one of these normally aspirated F-85s from Anchorage AK to
> Meridian
>> MS.
>>
>> Gross Scruggs
>> Annapolis MD
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Rovernet [mailto:rovernet-bounces at rovernet.org] On Behalf Of
>> GeffMcCarthy
>> Sent: Tuesday, November 12, 2013 12:47 AM
>> To: 'Rovernet'
>> Subject: Re: [Rovernet] 3 Litre V8 for sale in US
>>
>> Interesting conversion using the almost identical Buick 215 cu in engine.
>> It seems to have a 2 barrel carb.
>> This engine, with a water-injected turbocharger, powered the 62 Olds
>> Skylark, an advanced, smaller American car.
>>
>> AvMedSafe
>> Geoffrey W. McCarthy MD MBA DipAvMed
>> 677 NW Melinda Ave Portland OR USA 97210
>> 503-241-8468(h) 503-799-3809 (mobile)
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Rovernet [mailto:rovernet-bounces at rovernet.org] On Behalf Of
>> GeffMcCarthy
>> Sent: Monday, November 11, 2013 10:13 AM
>> To: 'Rovernet'
>> Subject: [Rovernet] 3 Litre V8 for sale in US
>>
>> http://www.ebay.com/itm/251374354802
>> Looks like some restoration, and needs more.  The v8 was never imported
>> here, owing to the smog regulations which began in 1968.
>>
>> AvMedSafe
>> Geoffrey W. McCarthy MD MBA DipAvMed
>> 677 NW Melinda Ave Portland OR USA 97210
>> 503-241-8468(h) 503-799-3809 (mobile)
>>
>>
>
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