[Rovernet] Resource help [Federal 3500S master cylinder]

LANCE LA CERTE PSY D lacpsyd6 at msn.com
Sun Jan 8 23:34:11 EST 2017


I ordered several parts from Wins for my conversion, but it was only afterwards that we discovered the leak in the master cylinder.   This is when I also found Welsh and have ordered the same brake master cylinder which Steve referenced.   If I had known I would have gotten a master cylinder from Wins as well, but I didn't want to pay exorbitant shipping for yet one more piece.


Ted Ax and I discussed his experience with boring and sleeving, and his vast experience confirms Steve's experiences that the sleeved systems just don't seem to hold up well over time.    I suspect Steve and I will be the experimental "subjects" to see just how good the Welsh units are with their 'better' seals.


Thanks to all who have been contributing their ideas, expertise and support as we move forward with this surgery.  So far I've pulled out the 'automatic' pedal box,  the old master cylinder, and the 'collar' which bolts to the firewall to which the master cylinder bolts and interfaces with the pushrod.   We have started mocking up the manual pedal box and Ted will begin tomorrow fabricating a new plate for the 'collar' which will allow enough space for both the brake and clutch master cylinders.  The 'manual pedal' box will need some tweaking in terms of bending the pedals slightly because the accelerator pedal linkage in the driver's footwell and the 'new' brake lever impede one another.   We are also going to have to figure out how to retrofit the brake light switch from the automatic pedal box as it is not part of the manual pedal box (In the automatic pedal box, this switch is activated by a crescent shaped piece of metal which is tack welded to the automatic brake pedal collar/bushing through which the shaft runs)


Once all of the above has been properly fabricated and installed, we'll pull the BW35 and begin mating the new bell housing and Celica 5 speed gear box to the drivetrain.


I'll keep you posted.


Lance


Lance La Certe, Psy.D.

I learned long ago, never to wrestle with a pig. You get dirty, and besides, the pig likes it.

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________________________________
From: Rovernet <rovernet-bounces at rovernet.org> on behalf of Steve Manwell via Rovernet <rovernet at rovernet.org>
Sent: Sunday, January 8, 2017 8:19 AM
To: Rovernet
Cc: Steve Manwell
Subject: Re: [Rovernet] Resource help [Federal 3500S master cylinder]

For most brake cylinders I would recommend having the bore sleeved and
rebuilding with new seals, but there are a few issues with that approach
to this master cylinder, and currently new Jaguar cylinders are
available at a reasonable price.

Two different master cylinders that I had sleeved and rebuilt both
started to leak within one to two years after the rebuild. The first one
had the cylinder bore and the small air valve piston bore sleeved and it
was assembled with new seals.  The second one was rebuilt in England
through a friend there, and not only the bores were sleeved, but also
the O.D. of the piston -- the seal against this surface is supposed to
keep fluid in the cylinder.  I thought it should be better than new, but
it too leaked somewhat after one year and six months later the leak was
draining the reservoir in a few days.

Last fall I was researching this issue and found this new Jaguar master
cylinder for $200:
http://www.welshent.com/product_info.php?sku=C26767    What caught my
attention with this one was the claim that "These master cylinders have
seals more dependable than those currently on the market."  The photo on
the web page shows a cylinder with "Lucas" cast on the body, but the one
I received has Lockheed labeling. Time will tell, but I installed the
cylinder and initially there are no leaks.  I asked the vendor if their
new seal kits had the same "more dependable" seals as the new cylinder;
they thought they did and I ordered some.  I am skeptical of the
separate seal kits, because the rubber boot on the new cylinder has
Lockheed labeling and numbers cast onto it, whereas the kit seals are in
generic looking packaging and the rubber parts lack the Lockheed labels
and numbers.

On the older of my two failed master cylinders, the rubber boot had
become hard as a rock.  The boot on the more recent rebuild seemed to be
partially hardened too.  It appears that many of the available seal kits
are poor quality.  Does anyone know of a source of OEM Lockheed seal
kits or other seals that are known to last?

I have given both my rebuilt cylinders to a rebuilder to disect, and
asked them to research better seals too.

--Steve


On 1/8/2017 4:25 AM, Geoff via Rovernet wrote:
> Both White Post and San Jose Power Brake have lots of parts and could probably build one. Won't be cheap.
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
>> On Jan 6, 2017, at 16:06, LANCE LA CERTE PSY D via Rovernet <rovernet at rovernet.org> wrote:
>>
>> Bill, this was very helpful, and I went ahead and ordered a new Jag brake master cylinder to replace the original Rover.
>>
>>
>> Thanks again,   Lance
>>
>>
>> Lance La Certe, Psy.D.
>>
>> I learned long ago, never to wrestle with a pig. You get dirty, and besides, the pig likes it.
>>
>> [Get this quote on a t-shirt!]<http://www.zazzle.com/api/create/at-238192362736820030?rf=238192362736820030&ax=DesignBlast&sr=250851256328789740&cg=0&ed=true&eds=Inline&ds=true&fwd=ProductPage&tc=795&ic=&quote=The+quickest+way+to+a+man%27s+heart+is+not+through+the+stomach+but+through+his+chest%2c+with+an+axe.&source=&continueUrl=http%3a%2f%2fcoolquotescollection.com%2f795%2fthe-quickest-way-to-a-man-s-heart-is-not-through-the-stomach-but-through-his&rut=Back+to+Cool+Quotes+Collection>t-shirt<http://www.zazzle.com/api/create/at-238192362736820030?rf=238192362736820030&ax=DesignBlast&sr=250851256328789740&cg=0&ed=true&eds=Inline&ds=true&fwd=ProductPage&tc=795&ic=&quote=The+quickest+way+to+a+man%27s+heart+is+not+through+the+stomach+but+through+his+chest%2c+with+an+axe.&source=&continueUrl=http%3a%2f%2fcoolquotescollection.com%2f795%2fthe-quickest-way-to-a-man-s-heart-is-not-through-the-stomach-but-through-his&rut=Back+to+Cool+Quotes+Collection>
>> [See comments and details]<http://coolquotescollection.com/795/the-quickest-way-to-a-man-s-heart-is-not-through-the-stomach-but-through-his>talk<http://coolquotescollection.com/795/the-quickest-way-to-a-man-s-heart-is-not-through-the-stomach-but-through-his>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> ________________________________
>> From: Rovernet <rovernet-bounces at rovernet.org> on behalf of magnet--- via Rovernet <rovernet at rovernet.org>
>> Sent: Wednesday, January 4, 2017 4:20 PM
>> To: Rovernet
>> Cc: magnet at ican.net
>> Subject: Re: [Rovernet] Resource help
>>
>> Hi Lance,
>>
>> The Rover part is hard, if not impossible, to find.  But it may be
>> replaced with the m/cyl for a Jaguar 420 / V-12 E-type, TRW No. C26767
>> L007C, which is the same except for the bore of the little air control
>> valve -- 5/16 instead of 3/8, if I recall correctly.  Makes no
>> difference in practice, just good to know if you're buying a rebuild kit.
>>
>> Hope this helps,
>>
>> Bill Daddis
>>
>>
>>
>>> On 04-Jan-17 5:50 PM, LANCE LA CERTE PSY D via Rovernet wrote:
>>> Trying to find a source for a new brake master cylinder,   1970 3500S   NADA.
>>>
>>>
>>> Thanks in advance for any help.
>>>
>>>
>>> Lance
>>>
>>>
>>> Lance La Certe, Psy.D.
>>>
>>> I learned long ago, never to wrestle with a pig. You get dirty, and besides, the pig likes it.
>>>
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