[Rovernet] Resource help [Federal 3500S master cylinder]

Geoff McCarthy geffandjulie at comcast.net
Mon Jan 9 07:19:35 EST 2017


Now that I think of it, my new Master Cylinder is that Jag  one.  I had no
leaks, but chronic failure to release in less than about 3-5 sec.  With the
new Jag MC, the problem persisted slightly, until a local, very
knowledgeable Jag mechanic replaced  one of the seals.  I have never had a
leaking MC, but drive the car very little, and live in a London-like
climate.  With this new MC, the brakes are infinitely better than the anemic
predecessor, and as good as my SD-1.  Good Luck, Lance!

Geoffrey W. McCarthy MD MBA DipAvMed
677 NW Melinda Ave
Portland OR 97210
503-241-8468 (h)
503-799-3809 (m)

-----Original Message-----
From: Rovernet [mailto:rovernet-bounces at rovernet.org] On Behalf Of LANCE LA
CERTE PSY D via Rovernet
Sent: Sunday, January 08, 2017 8:34 PM
To: Rovernet <rovernet at rovernet.org>
Cc: LANCE LA CERTE PSY D <lacpsyd6 at msn.com>
Subject: Re: [Rovernet] Resource help [Federal 3500S master cylinder]

I ordered several parts from Wins for my conversion, but it was only
afterwards that we discovered the leak in the master cylinder.   This is
when I also found Welsh and have ordered the same brake master cylinder
which Steve referenced.   If I had known I would have gotten a master
cylinder from Wins as well, but I didn't want to pay exorbitant shipping for
yet one more piece.


Ted Ax and I discussed his experience with boring and sleeving, and his vast
experience confirms Steve's experiences that the sleeved systems just don't
seem to hold up well over time.    I suspect Steve and I will be the
experimental "subjects" to see just how good the Welsh units are with their
'better' seals.


Thanks to all who have been contributing their ideas, expertise and support
as we move forward with this surgery.  So far I've pulled out the
'automatic' pedal box,  the old master cylinder, and the 'collar' which
bolts to the firewall to which the master cylinder bolts and interfaces with
the pushrod.   We have started mocking up the manual pedal box and Ted will
begin tomorrow fabricating a new plate for the 'collar' which will allow
enough space for both the brake and clutch master cylinders.  The 'manual
pedal' box will need some tweaking in terms of bending the pedals slightly
because the accelerator pedal linkage in the driver's footwell and the 'new'
brake lever impede one another.   We are also going to have to figure out
how to retrofit the brake light switch from the automatic pedal box as it is
not part of the manual pedal box (In the automatic pedal box, this switch is
activated by a crescent shaped piece of metal which is tack welded to the
automatic brake pedal collar/bushing through which the shaft runs)


Once all of the above has been properly fabricated and installed, we'll pull
the BW35 and begin mating the new bell housing and Celica 5 speed gear box
to the drivetrain.


I'll keep you posted.


Lance


Lance La Certe, Psy.D.

I learned long ago, never to wrestle with a pig. You get dirty, and besides,
the pig likes it.

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________________________________
From: Rovernet <rovernet-bounces at rovernet.org> on behalf of Steve Manwell
via Rovernet <rovernet at rovernet.org>
Sent: Sunday, January 8, 2017 8:19 AM
To: Rovernet
Cc: Steve Manwell
Subject: Re: [Rovernet] Resource help [Federal 3500S master cylinder]

For most brake cylinders I would recommend having the bore sleeved and
rebuilding with new seals, but there are a few issues with that approach to
this master cylinder, and currently new Jaguar cylinders are available at a
reasonable price.

Two different master cylinders that I had sleeved and rebuilt both started
to leak within one to two years after the rebuild. The first one had the
cylinder bore and the small air valve piston bore sleeved and it was
assembled with new seals.  The second one was rebuilt in England through a
friend there, and not only the bores were sleeved, but also the O.D. of the
piston -- the seal against this surface is supposed to keep fluid in the
cylinder.  I thought it should be better than new, but it too leaked
somewhat after one year and six months later the leak was draining the
reservoir in a few days.

Last fall I was researching this issue and found this new Jaguar master
cylinder for $200:
http://www.welshent.com/product_info.php?sku=C26767    What caught my
attention with this one was the claim that "These master cylinders have
seals more dependable than those currently on the market."  The photo on the
web page shows a cylinder with "Lucas" cast on the body, but the one I
received has Lockheed labeling. Time will tell, but I installed the cylinder
and initially there are no leaks.  I asked the vendor if their new seal kits
had the same "more dependable" seals as the new cylinder; they thought they
did and I ordered some.  I am skeptical of the separate seal kits, because
the rubber boot on the new cylinder has Lockheed labeling and numbers cast
onto it, whereas the kit seals are in generic looking packaging and the
rubber parts lack the Lockheed labels and numbers.

On the older of my two failed master cylinders, the rubber boot had become
hard as a rock.  The boot on the more recent rebuild seemed to be partially
hardened too.  It appears that many of the available seal kits are poor
quality.  Does anyone know of a source of OEM Lockheed seal kits or other
seals that are known to last?

I have given both my rebuilt cylinders to a rebuilder to disect, and asked
them to research better seals too.

--Steve


On 1/8/2017 4:25 AM, Geoff via Rovernet wrote:
> Both White Post and San Jose Power Brake have lots of parts and could
probably build one. Won't be cheap.
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
>> On Jan 6, 2017, at 16:06, LANCE LA CERTE PSY D via Rovernet
<rovernet at rovernet.org> wrote:
>>
>> Bill, this was very helpful, and I went ahead and ordered a new Jag brake
master cylinder to replace the original Rover.
>>
>>
>> Thanks again,   Lance
>>
>>
>> Lance La Certe, Psy.D.
>>
>> I learned long ago, never to wrestle with a pig. You get dirty, and
besides, the pig likes it.
>>
>> [Get this quote on a 
>> t-shirt!]<http://www.zazzle.com/api/create/at-238192362736820030?rf=2
>> 38192362736820030&ax=DesignBlast&sr=250851256328789740&cg=0&ed=true&e
>> ds=Inline&ds=true&fwd=ProductPage&tc=795&ic=&quote=The+quickest+way+t
>> o+a+man%27s+heart+is+not+through+the+stomach+but+through+his+chest%2c
>> +with+an+axe.&source=&continueUrl=http%3a%2f%2fcoolquotescollection.c
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>> ickest-way-to-a-man-s-heart-is-not-through-the-stomach-but-through-hi
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>> details]<http://coolquotescollection.com/795/the-quickest-way-to-a-ma
>> n-s-heart-is-not-through-the-stomach-but-through-his>talk<http://cool
>> quotescollection.com/795/the-quickest-way-to-a-man-s-heart-is-not-thr
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>>
>>
>> ________________________________
>> From: Rovernet <rovernet-bounces at rovernet.org> on behalf of magnet--- 
>> via Rovernet <rovernet at rovernet.org>
>> Sent: Wednesday, January 4, 2017 4:20 PM
>> To: Rovernet
>> Cc: magnet at ican.net
>> Subject: Re: [Rovernet] Resource help
>>
>> Hi Lance,
>>
>> The Rover part is hard, if not impossible, to find.  But it may be 
>> replaced with the m/cyl for a Jaguar 420 / V-12 E-type, TRW No. 
>> C26767 L007C, which is the same except for the bore of the little air 
>> control valve -- 5/16 instead of 3/8, if I recall correctly.  Makes 
>> no difference in practice, just good to know if you're buying a rebuild
kit.
>>
>> Hope this helps,
>>
>> Bill Daddis
>>
>>
>>
>>> On 04-Jan-17 5:50 PM, LANCE LA CERTE PSY D via Rovernet wrote:
>>> Trying to find a source for a new brake master cylinder,   1970 3500S
NADA.
>>>
>>>
>>> Thanks in advance for any help.
>>>
>>>
>>> Lance
>>>
>>>
>>> Lance La Certe, Psy.D.
>>>
>>> I learned long ago, never to wrestle with a pig. You get dirty, and
besides, the pig likes it.
>>>
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