[Rovernet] Resource help [Federal 3500S master cylinder]
Dermot Harvey
roverman2 at verizon.net
Thu Jan 12 08:59:28 EST 2017
I have to disagree that sleeving is not a good way to rebuild a
master cylinder. I have been having them resleeved for 30 plus years
and have never had a failure. I think that Stainless Steel is the
ideal material as it does not corrode and can be highly polished.
However, it has to be done by a highly skilled professional, which is
becoming increasingly difficult. A stainless resleeved clutch slave
cylinder in a P6 will last almost forever instead of having to
replace it every few years.
Dermot Harvey
On Jan 9, 2017, at 4:34 AM, LANCE LA CERTE PSY D via Rovernet wrote:
> I ordered several parts from Wins for my conversion, but it was
> only afterwards that we discovered the leak in the master
> cylinder. This is when I also found Welsh and have ordered the
> same brake master cylinder which Steve referenced. If I had known
> I would have gotten a master cylinder from Wins as well, but I
> didn't want to pay exorbitant shipping for yet one more piece.
>
>
> Ted Ax and I discussed his experience with boring and sleeving, and
> his vast experience confirms Steve's experiences that the sleeved
> systems just don't seem to hold up well over time. I suspect
> Steve and I will be the experimental "subjects" to see just how
> good the Welsh units are with their 'better' seals.
>
>
> Thanks to all who have been contributing their ideas, expertise and
> support as we move forward with this surgery. So far I've pulled
> out the 'automatic' pedal box, the old master cylinder, and the
> 'collar' which bolts to the firewall to which the master cylinder
> bolts and interfaces with the pushrod. We have started mocking up
> the manual pedal box and Ted will begin tomorrow fabricating a new
> plate for the 'collar' which will allow enough space for both the
> brake and clutch master cylinders. The 'manual pedal' box will
> need some tweaking in terms of bending the pedals slightly because
> the accelerator pedal linkage in the driver's footwell and the
> 'new' brake lever impede one another. We are also going to have
> to figure out how to retrofit the brake light switch from the
> automatic pedal box as it is not part of the manual pedal box (In
> the automatic pedal box, this switch is activated by a crescent
> shaped piece of metal which is tack welded to the automatic brake
> pedal
> collar/bushing through which the shaft runs)
>
>
> Once all of the above has been properly fabricated and installed,
> we'll pull the BW35 and begin mating the new bell housing and
> Celica 5 speed gear box to the drivetrain.
>
>
> I'll keep you posted.
>
>
> Lance
>
>
> Lance La Certe, Psy.D.
>
> I learned long ago, never to wrestle with a pig. You get dirty, and
> besides, the pig likes it.
>
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>
> ________________________________
> From: Rovernet <rovernet-bounces at rovernet.org> on behalf of Steve
> Manwell via Rovernet <rovernet at rovernet.org>
> Sent: Sunday, January 8, 2017 8:19 AM
> To: Rovernet
> Cc: Steve Manwell
> Subject: Re: [Rovernet] Resource help [Federal 3500S master cylinder]
>
> For most brake cylinders I would recommend having the bore sleeved and
> rebuilding with new seals, but there are a few issues with that
> approach
> to this master cylinder, and currently new Jaguar cylinders are
> available at a reasonable price.
>
> Two different master cylinders that I had sleeved and rebuilt both
> started to leak within one to two years after the rebuild. The
> first one
> had the cylinder bore and the small air valve piston bore sleeved
> and it
> was assembled with new seals. The second one was rebuilt in England
> through a friend there, and not only the bores were sleeved, but also
> the O.D. of the piston -- the seal against this surface is supposed to
> keep fluid in the cylinder. I thought it should be better than
> new, but
> it too leaked somewhat after one year and six months later the leak
> was
> draining the reservoir in a few days.
>
> Last fall I was researching this issue and found this new Jaguar
> master
> cylinder for $200:
> http://www.welshent.com/product_info.php?sku=C26767 What caught my
> attention with this one was the claim that "These master cylinders
> have
> seals more dependable than those currently on the market." The
> photo on
> the web page shows a cylinder with "Lucas" cast on the body, but
> the one
> I received has Lockheed labeling. Time will tell, but I installed the
> cylinder and initially there are no leaks. I asked the vendor if
> their
> new seal kits had the same "more dependable" seals as the new
> cylinder;
> they thought they did and I ordered some. I am skeptical of the
> separate seal kits, because the rubber boot on the new cylinder has
> Lockheed labeling and numbers cast onto it, whereas the kit seals
> are in
> generic looking packaging and the rubber parts lack the Lockheed
> labels
> and numbers.
>
> On the older of my two failed master cylinders, the rubber boot had
> become hard as a rock. The boot on the more recent rebuild seemed
> to be
> partially hardened too. It appears that many of the available seal
> kits
> are poor quality. Does anyone know of a source of OEM Lockheed seal
> kits or other seals that are known to last?
>
> I have given both my rebuilt cylinders to a rebuilder to disect, and
> asked them to research better seals too.
>
> --Steve
>
>
> On 1/8/2017 4:25 AM, Geoff via Rovernet wrote:
>> Both White Post and San Jose Power Brake have lots of parts and
>> could probably build one. Won't be cheap.
>>
>> Sent from my iPhone
>>
>>> On Jan 6, 2017, at 16:06, LANCE LA CERTE PSY D via Rovernet
>>> <rovernet at rovernet.org> wrote:
>>>
>>> Bill, this was very helpful, and I went ahead and ordered a new
>>> Jag brake master cylinder to replace the original Rover.
>>>
>>>
>>> Thanks again, Lance
>>>
>>>
>>> Lance La Certe, Psy.D.
>>>
>>> I learned long ago, never to wrestle with a pig. You get dirty,
>>> and besides, the pig likes it.
>>>
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>>>
>>> ________________________________
>>> From: Rovernet <rovernet-bounces at rovernet.org> on behalf of
>>> magnet--- via Rovernet <rovernet at rovernet.org>
>>> Sent: Wednesday, January 4, 2017 4:20 PM
>>> To: Rovernet
>>> Cc: magnet at ican.net
>>> Subject: Re: [Rovernet] Resource help
>>>
>>> Hi Lance,
>>>
>>> The Rover part is hard, if not impossible, to find. But it may be
>>> replaced with the m/cyl for a Jaguar 420 / V-12 E-type, TRW No.
>>> C26767
>>> L007C, which is the same except for the bore of the little air
>>> control
>>> valve -- 5/16 instead of 3/8, if I recall correctly. Makes no
>>> difference in practice, just good to know if you're buying a
>>> rebuild kit.
>>>
>>> Hope this helps,
>>>
>>> Bill Daddis
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>> On 04-Jan-17 5:50 PM, LANCE LA CERTE PSY D via Rovernet wrote:
>>>> Trying to find a source for a new brake master cylinder, 1970
>>>> 3500S NADA.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Thanks in advance for any help.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Lance
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Lance La Certe, Psy.D.
>>>>
>>>> I learned long ago, never to wrestle with a pig. You get dirty,
>>>> and besides, the pig likes it.
>>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
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