[Rovernet] Resource help [Federal 3500S master cylinder]

Dermot Harvey roverman2 at verizon.net
Thu Jan 12 08:59:28 EST 2017


I have to disagree that sleeving is not a good way to rebuild a  
master cylinder. I have been having them resleeved for 30 plus years  
and have never had a failure. I think that Stainless Steel is the  
ideal material as it does not corrode and can be highly polished.  
However, it has to be done by a highly skilled professional, which is  
becoming increasingly difficult. A stainless resleeved clutch slave  
cylinder in a P6 will last almost  forever instead of having to  
replace it every few years.


Dermot Harvey

On Jan 9, 2017, at 4:34 AM, LANCE LA CERTE PSY D via Rovernet wrote:

> I ordered several parts from Wins for my conversion, but it was  
> only afterwards that we discovered the leak in the master  
> cylinder.   This is when I also found Welsh and have ordered the  
> same brake master cylinder which Steve referenced.   If I had known  
> I would have gotten a master cylinder from Wins as well, but I  
> didn't want to pay exorbitant shipping for yet one more piece.
>
>
> Ted Ax and I discussed his experience with boring and sleeving, and  
> his vast experience confirms Steve's experiences that the sleeved  
> systems just don't seem to hold up well over time.    I suspect  
> Steve and I will be the experimental "subjects" to see just how  
> good the Welsh units are with their 'better' seals.
>
>
> Thanks to all who have been contributing their ideas, expertise and  
> support as we move forward with this surgery.  So far I've pulled  
> out the 'automatic' pedal box,  the old master cylinder, and the  
> 'collar' which bolts to the firewall to which the master cylinder  
> bolts and interfaces with the pushrod.   We have started mocking up  
> the manual pedal box and Ted will begin tomorrow fabricating a new  
> plate for the 'collar' which will allow enough space for both the  
> brake and clutch master cylinders.  The 'manual pedal' box will  
> need some tweaking in terms of bending the pedals slightly because  
> the accelerator pedal linkage in the driver's footwell and the  
> 'new' brake lever impede one another.   We are also going to have  
> to figure out how to retrofit the brake light switch from the  
> automatic pedal box as it is not part of the manual pedal box (In  
> the automatic pedal box, this switch is activated by a crescent  
> shaped piece of metal which is tack welded to the automatic brake  
> pedal
>  collar/bushing through which the shaft runs)
>
>
> Once all of the above has been properly fabricated and installed,  
> we'll pull the BW35 and begin mating the new bell housing and  
> Celica 5 speed gear box to the drivetrain.
>
>
> I'll keep you posted.
>
>
> Lance
>
>
> Lance La Certe, Psy.D.
>
> I learned long ago, never to wrestle with a pig. You get dirty, and  
> besides, the pig likes it.
>
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>
>
>
> ________________________________
> From: Rovernet <rovernet-bounces at rovernet.org> on behalf of Steve  
> Manwell via Rovernet <rovernet at rovernet.org>
> Sent: Sunday, January 8, 2017 8:19 AM
> To: Rovernet
> Cc: Steve Manwell
> Subject: Re: [Rovernet] Resource help [Federal 3500S master cylinder]
>
> For most brake cylinders I would recommend having the bore sleeved and
> rebuilding with new seals, but there are a few issues with that  
> approach
> to this master cylinder, and currently new Jaguar cylinders are
> available at a reasonable price.
>
> Two different master cylinders that I had sleeved and rebuilt both
> started to leak within one to two years after the rebuild. The  
> first one
> had the cylinder bore and the small air valve piston bore sleeved  
> and it
> was assembled with new seals.  The second one was rebuilt in England
> through a friend there, and not only the bores were sleeved, but also
> the O.D. of the piston -- the seal against this surface is supposed to
> keep fluid in the cylinder.  I thought it should be better than  
> new, but
> it too leaked somewhat after one year and six months later the leak  
> was
> draining the reservoir in a few days.
>
> Last fall I was researching this issue and found this new Jaguar  
> master
> cylinder for $200:
> http://www.welshent.com/product_info.php?sku=C26767    What caught my
> attention with this one was the claim that "These master cylinders  
> have
> seals more dependable than those currently on the market."  The  
> photo on
> the web page shows a cylinder with "Lucas" cast on the body, but  
> the one
> I received has Lockheed labeling. Time will tell, but I installed the
> cylinder and initially there are no leaks.  I asked the vendor if  
> their
> new seal kits had the same "more dependable" seals as the new  
> cylinder;
> they thought they did and I ordered some.  I am skeptical of the
> separate seal kits, because the rubber boot on the new cylinder has
> Lockheed labeling and numbers cast onto it, whereas the kit seals  
> are in
> generic looking packaging and the rubber parts lack the Lockheed  
> labels
> and numbers.
>
> On the older of my two failed master cylinders, the rubber boot had
> become hard as a rock.  The boot on the more recent rebuild seemed  
> to be
> partially hardened too.  It appears that many of the available seal  
> kits
> are poor quality.  Does anyone know of a source of OEM Lockheed seal
> kits or other seals that are known to last?
>
> I have given both my rebuilt cylinders to a rebuilder to disect, and
> asked them to research better seals too.
>
> --Steve
>
>
> On 1/8/2017 4:25 AM, Geoff via Rovernet wrote:
>> Both White Post and San Jose Power Brake have lots of parts and  
>> could probably build one. Won't be cheap.
>>
>> Sent from my iPhone
>>
>>> On Jan 6, 2017, at 16:06, LANCE LA CERTE PSY D via Rovernet  
>>> <rovernet at rovernet.org> wrote:
>>>
>>> Bill, this was very helpful, and I went ahead and ordered a new  
>>> Jag brake master cylinder to replace the original Rover.
>>>
>>>
>>> Thanks again,   Lance
>>>
>>>
>>> Lance La Certe, Psy.D.
>>>
>>> I learned long ago, never to wrestle with a pig. You get dirty,  
>>> and besides, the pig likes it.
>>>
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>>> at-238192362736820030? 
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>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> ________________________________
>>> From: Rovernet <rovernet-bounces at rovernet.org> on behalf of  
>>> magnet--- via Rovernet <rovernet at rovernet.org>
>>> Sent: Wednesday, January 4, 2017 4:20 PM
>>> To: Rovernet
>>> Cc: magnet at ican.net
>>> Subject: Re: [Rovernet] Resource help
>>>
>>> Hi Lance,
>>>
>>> The Rover part is hard, if not impossible, to find.  But it may be
>>> replaced with the m/cyl for a Jaguar 420 / V-12 E-type, TRW No.  
>>> C26767
>>> L007C, which is the same except for the bore of the little air  
>>> control
>>> valve -- 5/16 instead of 3/8, if I recall correctly.  Makes no
>>> difference in practice, just good to know if you're buying a  
>>> rebuild kit.
>>>
>>> Hope this helps,
>>>
>>> Bill Daddis
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>> On 04-Jan-17 5:50 PM, LANCE LA CERTE PSY D via Rovernet wrote:
>>>> Trying to find a source for a new brake master cylinder,   1970  
>>>> 3500S   NADA.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Thanks in advance for any help.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Lance
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Lance La Certe, Psy.D.
>>>>
>>>> I learned long ago, never to wrestle with a pig. You get dirty,  
>>>> and besides, the pig likes it.
>>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
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