[Rovernet] Rovernet Digest, Vol 106, Issue 2

Tue May 3 14:51:28 EDT 2022

Sure, I wasn't disparaging Hungary or its manufacturing.  I only mentioned it since I guessed that someone here might recognize the source there and have an opinion as to quality.  We'll follow through on all suggestions.

Thanks!

Bob

From: Rovernet <rovernet-bounces at rovernet.org> On Behalf Of Kellogg, Charles via Rovernet
Sent: Tuesday, May 3, 2022 2:34 PM
To: rovernet at rovernet.org
Cc: Kellogg, Charles <charlesk at darebritannia.com>
Subject: Re: [Rovernet] Rovernet Digest, Vol 106, Issue 2

So just because they are made in Hungary isn't necessarily a bad thing. There are some good manufacturers in some of those ex-Communist-bloc countries. Many Benz bearings are made in the ex-Czech Republic.  I"d look for possible technician error or other pre-existing or collateral faults.

Godo luck!

Charles Kellogg
Director of Restorations
Dare Britannia, Ltd.
1043 Kaiser Rd. SW, Unit C
Olympia, WA  98512, USA
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Today's Topics:

   1. Re: 2000TC Bad Brakes (Robert Ruggeri)
   2. Re: 2000TC Bad Brakes (Vern Inkspot)

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Message: 1
Date: Mon, 2 May 2022 21:37:07 +0000
From: Robert Ruggeri <robert.ruggeri.esq at outlook.com<mailto:robert.ruggeri.esq at outlook.com>>
To: Rovernet <rovernet at rovernet.org<mailto:rovernet at rovernet.org>>
Subject: Re: [Rovernet] 2000TC Bad Brakes
Message-ID:
        <MN2PR04MB7136E7E91E5A773D0B33CA8ADEC19 at MN2PR04MB7136.namprd04.prod.outlook.com<mailto:MN2PR04MB7136E7E91E5A773D0B33CA8ADEC19 at MN2PR04MB7136.namprd04.prod.outlook.com>>

Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"

Thanks to one and all for the very helpful information.   I spoke with the shop today:  they did install new servos - but not OEM, rather an aftermarket set "made in Hungary".  They had made the executive decision that the new stock ones from the UK were "too expensive" and apparently didn't realize we could have sent them out for rebuilding.

Thanks for the various options which I will investigate.

Bob

From: Rovernet <rovernet-bounces at rovernet.org<mailto:rovernet-bounces at rovernet.org>> On Behalf Of Roger Matheson via Rovernet
Sent: Sunday, April 24, 2022 10:17 PM
To: Rovernet <rovernet at rovernet.org<mailto:rovernet at rovernet.org>>
Cc: Roger Matheson <roger.matheson at bigpond.com<mailto:roger.matheson at bigpond.com>>
Subject: Re: [Rovernet] 2000TC Bad Brakes

Hi Bob,

I've had 2000TC's for 36 years and It would seem that the boosters are not working at all and possibly also that faulty or incorrectly installed parts are restricting fluid flow. A simple diagnostic is to compare braking with the engine running and not and to do this you will need a safe area of flat ground when you can roll the car with the engine off. If the boosters are faulty then there will be no difference in braking between engine on and off. With the car stopped, press the brake pedal and start the engine. If the boosters are working (even a little) you should feel the brake pedal depress. Check that the vacuum pipe to the boosters is not blocked. With engine off remove the pipe from the boosters and start the engine (which it wont like) but will clearly indicate suction. With an assistant, locate where the fluid pipe from the master connects to the booster. Press the brake pedal and keep pressed while gradually loosening the connection. With the master working correctly, fluid will begin to escape from the connection around the threads and the pedal will start to sink. As son as the pedal moves and or the assistant sees fluid escaping have the assistant re tighten the connection before taking the foot off the pedal. These diagnostics will eliminate problems wit the master and the vacuum and confirm booster problems. Then take up Pierre's offer of a proper re build. Hope this helps
Cheers from Roger in Oz

From: pierre janusz via Rovernet<mailto:rovernet at rovernet.org<mailto:rovernet at rovernet.org>>
Sent: Sunday, 24 April 2022 7:11 PM
To: rovernet at rovernet.org<mailto:rovernet at rovernet.org><mailto:rovernet at rovernet.org<mailto:rovernet at rovernet.org>>
Cc: pierre janusz<mailto:pjemail at aol.com<mailto:pjemail at aol.com>>
Subject: Re: [Rovernet] 2000TC Bad Brakes

Dear Robert,

If you want OEM boosters or repair kits I have them both avaialble.

Pierre
-----Original Message-----
From: Robert Ruggeri via Rovernet <rovernet at rovernet.org<mailto:rovernet at rovernet.org><mailto:rovernet at rovernet.org<mailto:rovernet at rovernet.org>>>
To: Rovernet <rovernet at rovernet.org<mailto:rovernet at rovernet.org><mailto:rovernet at rovernet.org<mailto:rovernet at rovernet.org>>>
CC: Robert Ruggeri <robert.ruggeri.esq at outlook.com<mailto:robert.ruggeri.esq at outlook.com><mailto:robert.ruggeri.esq at outlook.com<mailto:robert.ruggeri.esq at outlook.com>>>
Sent: Sat, 23 Apr 2022 23:45
Subject: Re: [Rovernet] 2000TC Bad Brakes
Hi All:

Brakes were overhauled by shop recently, and both master vac units were replaced.  They also said they rebuilt the master cylinder boosters.

Brake pedal is very, very hard.  Car will stop, with difficulty, but only if you really lean on that last ? inch of travel in the pedal.  The car doesn't feel as though it even has power assisted brakes.

Mechanic acknowledges that (although he thinks it's safe enough since the car will eventually stop).  He says the problem was getting parts for the vac and boosters.  He claims he got aftermarket from the UK since OEM wasn't available, etc., etc.  Something about OEM rebuild kits not being available?  Whatever.

Anybody have any insight into this?  It's a 1971 2000TC.  I can't believe any other P6 has brakes like this.  If the proper parts are available I will follow up.

Thanks.

Bob

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------------------------------

Message: 2
Date: Mon, 2 May 2022 14:52:57 -0700
From: Vern Inkspot <vern at inkspotco.com<mailto:vern at inkspotco.com>>
To: Rovernet <rovernet at rovernet.org<mailto:rovernet at rovernet.org>>
Subject: Re: [Rovernet] 2000TC Bad Brakes
Message-ID: <F3DA1005-BD4F-4022-B9C2-74E1C8F5FBAA at inkspotco.com<mailto:F3DA1005-BD4F-4022-B9C2-74E1C8F5FBAA at inkspotco.com>>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"

HI Robert.

OK, the problem is likely to be the servos then.

Long story short, servos come in different boost ratios, the amount the servo increases you foot pedal pressure. The P6 uses an unusually high ratio, 4.25:1. Almost certainly the servos they obtained have around a 2:1 ratio. This will give you a very hard pedal.

Could you take a picture of their work and post it? The next hurtle is they may have bent or modified the original pipes all helter-skelter in fitting these replacements, we can tell that from a photo.

Yours
Vern

> On May 2, 2022, at 2:37 PM, Robert Ruggeri via Rovernet <rovernet at rovernet.org<mailto:rovernet at rovernet.org>> wrote:
>
> Thanks to one and all for the very helpful information.   I spoke with the shop today:  they did install new servos ? but not OEM, rather an aftermarket set ?made in Hungary?.  They had made the executive decision that the new stock ones from the UK were ?too expensive? and apparently didn?t realize we could have sent them out for rebuilding.
>
> Thanks for the various options which I will investigate.
>
> Bob
>
>
> From: Rovernet <rovernet-bounces at rovernet.org<mailto:rovernet-bounces at rovernet.org>> On Behalf Of Roger Matheson via Rovernet
> Sent: Sunday, April 24, 2022 10:17 PM
> To: Rovernet <rovernet at rovernet.org<mailto:rovernet at rovernet.org>>
> Cc: Roger Matheson <roger.matheson at bigpond.com<mailto:roger.matheson at bigpond.com>>
> Subject: Re: [Rovernet] 2000TC Bad Brakes
>
> Hi Bob,
>
> I?ve had 2000TC?s for 36 years and It would seem that the boosters are not working at all and possibly also that faulty or incorrectly installed parts are restricting fluid flow. A simple diagnostic is to compare braking with the engine running and not and to do this you will need a safe area of flat ground when you can roll the car with the engine off. If the boosters are faulty then there will be no difference in braking between engine on and off. With the car stopped, press the brake pedal and start the engine. If the boosters are working (even a little) you should feel the brake pedal depress. Check that the vacuum pipe to the boosters is not blocked. With engine off remove the pipe from the boosters and start the engine (which it wont like) but will clearly indicate suction. With an assistant, locate where the fluid pipe from the master connects to the booster. Press the brake pedal and keep pressed while gradually loosening the connection. With the master working correctly, fluid will begin to escape from the connection around the threads and the pedal will start to sink. As son as the pedal moves and or the assistant sees fluid escaping have the assistant re tighten the connection before taking the foot off the pedal. These diagnostics will eliminate problems wit the master and the vacuum and confirm booster problems. Then take up Pierre?s offer of a proper re build. Hope this helps
> Cheers from Roger in Oz
>
> From: pierre janusz via Rovernet <mailto:rovernet at rovernet.org<mailto:rovernet at rovernet.org>>
> Sent: Sunday, 24 April 2022 7:11 PM
> To: rovernet at rovernet.org<mailto:rovernet at rovernet.org> <mailto:rovernet at rovernet.org<mailto:rovernet at rovernet.org>>
> Cc: pierre janusz <mailto:pjemail at aol.com<mailto:pjemail at aol.com>>
> Subject: Re: [Rovernet] 2000TC Bad Brakes
>
>
>
> Dear Robert,
>
> If you want OEM boosters or repair kits I have them both avaialble.
>
>
> Pierre
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Robert Ruggeri via Rovernet <rovernet at rovernet.org<mailto:rovernet at rovernet.org> <mailto:rovernet at rovernet.org<mailto:rovernet at rovernet.org>>>
> To: Rovernet <rovernet at rovernet.org<mailto:rovernet at rovernet.org> <mailto:rovernet at rovernet.org<mailto:rovernet at rovernet.org>>>
> CC: Robert Ruggeri <robert.ruggeri.esq at outlook.com<mailto:robert.ruggeri.esq at outlook.com> <mailto:robert.ruggeri.esq at outlook.com<mailto:robert.ruggeri.esq at outlook.com>>>
> Sent: Sat, 23 Apr 2022 23:45
> Subject: Re: [Rovernet] 2000TC Bad Brakes
>
> Hi All:
>
> Brakes were overhauled by shop recently, and both master vac units were replaced.  They also said they rebuilt the master cylinder boosters.
>
> Brake pedal is very, very hard.  Car will stop, with difficulty, but only if you really lean on that last ? inch of travel in the pedal.  The car doesn?t feel as though it even has power assisted brakes.
>
> Mechanic acknowledges that (although he thinks it?s safe enough since the car will eventually stop).  He says the problem was getting parts for the vac and boosters.  He claims he got aftermarket from the UK since OEM wasn?t available, etc., etc.  Something about OEM rebuild kits not being available?  Whatever.
>
> Anybody have any insight into this?  It?s a 1971 2000TC.  I can?t believe any other P6 has brakes like this.  If the proper parts are available I will follow up.
>
> Thanks.
>
> Bob
>
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End of Rovernet Digest, Vol 106, Issue 2
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