<table cellspacing="0" cellpadding="0" border="0"><tr><td valign="top"><div>Robert, thanks for all the info. I am impressed with those that have stuck with the SD1 if all these issues arise. You have to really stick with your guns to be an SD1 owner. I applaud all of you. It looks to be too much for my limited skills. I hope those with the means can keep and save them. <br /><br />Roland, who would be over his head with one. </div></td></tr></table> <div id="_origMsg_">
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Robert Heimerl <robertime4@gmail.com>; <br>
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<veetwinrider@yahoo.com>; <br>
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<span style="font-weight:bold">Subject:</span>
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Re: [Rovernet] SD1 redux, apologies to Robert <br>
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Tue, Aug 30, 2016 8:41:38 PM <br>
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<td valign="top"><div dir="ltr">Hi Roland (and anyone else who has expressed positive feeling/interest in Rover SD1's),<div><br clear="none"></div><div>If you're serious -- and sometimes we really are joking about these things -- I know of another Turmeric Yellow SD1 with a 5-speed and sunroof in the DC area that's hopefully still available for someone willing to take on a serious project. This one hasn't run in over five years, but it's been garaged during that period. I've hesitated to take it on myself for several reasons (lack of space here for a non-running car, for instance). It has significant rust and the interior's in rough shape -- the door panels are peeling, the headliner's falling down. It's not unusual for these things to happen, of course, as others have pointed out. I've thought of selling my current Rover and taking on this one as yet another SD1
challenge, but truly prefer the non-sunroof version for the headroom-related reasons mentioned earlier.</div><div><br clear="none"></div><div>As to why it doesn't run, that would need to be carefully investigated. I've found that the fuel systems on these cars have often been a source of trouble when they're left sitting for extended periods (rust in fuel tank due to ethanol). It's also been my experience -- with at least three Rover V-8's -- that the camshaft and valve train often require attention before they can be put back in service. Then there's that braking system with its N.L.A. Lockheed components (2nd generation Girling parts can be substituted, but it's complicated), leaking hydraulic clutch cylinders, disintegating suspension bushings (plus those for the gear shift and steering column), rusty exhaust components that must be sourced from overseas, leaky windshields and hatches, broken glove box latches, sticky
window switches, broken turn signal/headlamp dimmer units (NAS-specific, NLA) and -- critical during a long, hot summer -- non-functional a/c.</div><div><br clear="none"></div><div>Then there are those less-than-attractive headlamps. LHD European units are still lurking here and there, but it's the installation process that's a bit intimidating. The center panel on North American models is welded in place, other items are bolted to it. Plus there are two or three approaches one can take to doing this conversion, based on the original or face-lifted (post-'81) version of this car. Needless to say, it's quite complicated -- but it can be done.</div><div><br clear="none"></div><div>Scared you off yet? That's an abbreviated list, I could easily continue..</div><div><br clear="none"></div><div>Because the Bosch-sourced fuel injection (only the floor-mounted computer and throttle position sensor were Lucas) and other electronic
components were advanced for the time, many owners were faced with high repair costs and/or refusal by repair shops to even consider working on these cars (this, after they'd been almost immediately orphaned by their manufacturer). Fuel injection and electronic ignition are now standard equipment equipment so it's mostly become a non-issue, but in the meantime many SD1's were scavenged for their drivetrains and left sitting engine-less behind a shop until they were finally scrapped -- generally due to lack of interest. Others had their fuel injection removed, replaced with manifolds and carburetors related to their distant Buick ancestors. I've resisted that move --and haven't regretted doing so. Many parts are shared with the original Buick engine, others are in common with the relatively well-supplied TR8. One UK parts supplier -- Rimmer Brothers of Lincolnshire -- has many SD1 items, but one must know what the differences
are between the North American Specification cars and the domestic versions (an often difficult thing to sort out since those who field their parts calls have little cause to know/learn such details).</div><div><br clear="none"></div><div>Most of these tasks are very much a matter of "do it yourself."</div><div><br clear="none"></div><div>Domestically, there are a few sources for parts (one is Dermot Harvey, a NY-based RCC member). I've saved many items from soon-to be recycled cars (higher scrap metal prices a years ago made derelict SD1's tempting targets). </div><div><br clear="none"></div><div>There are several clubs and individuals in the UK who are more than happy to help with such things, but, again, it's often a bit complicated. A recent do-it-yourself British car magazine featured all variants of the SD1 as their cover story on the 40th anniversary of this model's introduction (it really doesn't look that old,
does it?), including a NAS example that I revived several years earlier and shipped off to the SD1 Club's historian in a strange sort of round trip commute. Here's a link to Practical Classic's Facebook page and a source for the available digital version: <a rel="nofollow" shape="rect" target="_blank" href="https://www.facebook.com/PracticalClassics/photos/a.225409260810702.63692.225407620810866/1138117909539828/?type=3&theater">https://www.facebook.com/ PracticalClassics/photos/a. 225409260810702.63692. 225407620810866/ 1138117909539828/?type=3& theater</a> (note how some in the UK prefer NAS headlamps, use them for track versions of this car!) <a rel="nofollow" shape="rect" target="_blank" href="https://pocketmags.com/viewmagazine.aspx">https://pocketmags.com/ viewmagazine.aspx</a>? catid=1030&category=Aviation+% 26+Transport&subcatid=189& subcategory=Automotive&title= Practical+Classics&titleid=
2012&issueid=125526 and, on eBay, which has been one of the best sources for otherwise elusive parts (this listing provides a sample of shipping costs for those contemplating such a project -- it's not going to be inexpensive, despite the diminished value of the Pound vs. the Dollar following the recent "Brexit" vote: <a rel="nofollow" shape="rect" target="_blank" href="http://www.ebay.com/itm/Practical-Classics-Spring-2016-Rover-SD1-Marina-Jaguar-XJ6-XJ40-Firebird-RS1600i-/381751878555">http://www.ebay.com/itm/ Practical-Classics-Spring- 2016-Rover-SD1-Marina-Jaguar- XJ6-XJ40-Firebird-RS1600i-/ 381751878555</a>?</div><div><br clear="none"></div><div>I can put you (or others who might be interested) in touch with the SD1's owner -- or he may be reading this thread and volunteer the information (assuming he's still a RCC member and hasn't followed through on threats to scrap it). </div><div><br clear="none"></div><div>I
know this has been a lot to read, but also hope it will inspire someone to take on one of these orphan Rovers as a project. Keep in mind that I've never said it would be easy! As for scarcity, one source recently indicated only 400 of the over 300,000 SD1's produced are still on the road in the UK. In the U.S., I'd say it's no more than a few dozen.</div><div><br clear="none"></div><div>Yet that may be more than enough for the number of prospective SD1 owners that appear to be available, even among those who frequent a Rover-related site like this one! ;-)</div><div><br clear="none"></div><div>Best of luck,</div><div><br clear="none"></div><div>Robert</div><div><br clear="none"></div><div>PS: This very nice example, plus a parts car with European market headlamps, was recently listed on eBay, for what appears to have been any overly optimistic price: <a rel="nofollow" shape="rect" target="_blank"
href="http://www.ebay.com/itm/Other-Makes-3500-Base-Hatchback-4-Door-/331941827757?forcerrptr=true&hash=item4d494654ad:g:hywAAOSw1DtXFAxy&item=331941827757">http://www.ebay.com/itm/Other-Makes-3500-Base-Hatchback-4-Door-/331941827757?forcerrptr=true&hash=item4d494654ad:g:hywAAOSw1DtXFAxy&item=331941827757</a></div></div><div class="yqt9562484394" id="yqt19116"><div class="gmail_extra"><br clear="none"><div class="gmail_quote">On Mon, Aug 29, 2016 at 2:58 PM, <span dir="ltr"><<a rel="nofollow" shape="rect" ymailto="mailto:veetwinrider@yahoo.com" target="_blank" href="javascript:return">veetwinrider@yahoo.com</a>></span> wrote:<br clear="none"><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex;"><table cellspacing="0" cellpadding="0" border="0"><tbody><tr><td colspan="1" rowspan="1" valign="top"><div>Wow, that makes me want to get an SD1! I seem to always fall for orphans and like a
challenge. It's what made me like British cars, because my brothers told me not to get them. <br clear="none"><br clear="none">Roland, Roverless.</div></td></tr></tbody></table> <div>
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Robert Heimerl via Rovernet <<a rel="nofollow" shape="rect" ymailto="mailto:rovernet@rovernet.org" target="_blank" href="javascript:return">rovernet@rovernet.org</a>>; <br clear="none">
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Rovernet <<a rel="nofollow" shape="rect" ymailto="mailto:rovernet@rovernet.org" target="_blank" href="javascript:return">rovernet@rovernet.org</a>>; <br clear="none">
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Robert Heimerl <<a rel="nofollow" shape="rect" ymailto="mailto:robertime4@gmail.com" target="_blank" href="javascript:return">robertime4@gmail.com</a>>; <br clear="none">
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<span style="font-weight:bold;">Subject:</span>
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Re: [Rovernet] SD1 redux, apologies to Robert <br clear="none">
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Mon, Aug 29, 2016 6:26:27 PM <br clear="none">
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<table cellspacing="0" cellpadding="0" border="0"><tbody><tr><td colspan="1" rowspan="1" valign="top"><div><div class="h5">Thanks for your additional comments, Lance. As noted elsewhere, I have<br clear="none">often been quite critical of the Rover SD1, emphasizing British Leyland's<br clear="none">difficulty getting it to market in the midst of bankruptcy, this car's<br clear="none">wholly indifferent assembly quality and cheaply made interior materials, in<br clear="none">particular, plus BL's lack of concern for customers who had to deal with<br clear="none">such glaring inadequacies in a rather expensive vehicle -- as well as<br clear="none">practically every other issue you've chosen to highlight in those selected<br clear="none">quotes. In fact, I have thoroughly read the compilations of those same<br clear="none">articles and even have many of the original magazines themselves in an<br
clear="none">extensive collection of Rover SD1-related literature.<br clear="none"><br clear="none">I often describe the SD1 as "a sometimes-rolling showcase of all that went<br clear="none">wrong with the British auto industry in the 1970's and 80's," and did so<br clear="none">when
speaking with the author of the Curbside Classics piece you posted for<br clear="none">Rovernet readers. For whatever reason, he chose not to use that quote --<br clear="none">perhaps because he wished to emphasize this car's positive aspects, which<br clear="none">occasionally shine through despite its many well-documented shortcomings.<br clear="none">Further, having on a few occasions interacted with Rover P6's, I agree that<br clear="none">their doors close with a fully satisfying sound (rather than a clang) and<br clear="none">note that the materials used do not seem to reflect the cost-cutting that<br clear="none">became rampant as financial concerns became BL's chief priority. And, yes,<br clear="none">at least Rover could have included outboard-mounted disc brakes at the rear<br clear="none">when they went to a live axle with a Watts linkage and Boge load-levelers<br clear="none">(not itself a bad alternative to the independent
rear suspension found on<br clear="none">the P6 -- when everything's functioning properly it handles/rides very<br clear="none">well). A manual
transmission-equipped version is better by far than those<br clear="none">equipped with the Borg-Warner 3-speed automatic. It feels as if you're<br clear="none">driving an entirely different car. [I've never owned one so equipped, a<br clear="none">fully conscious choice.]<br clear="none"><br clear="none">It's generally agreed that the problem with the SD1 was not so much its<br clear="none">design as its poor execution -- although I can also offer criticisms of the<br clear="none">design (the roof line's too low and the door handles, inside and out, are<br clear="none">cheap-feeling and/or poorly-placed). One insightful comment on this subject<br clear="none">that comes to mind is that of the much-revered Spen King's, who said<br clear="none">shortly before his death that the main problem with the SD1 was "the lack<br clear="none">of a sufficient number of production engineers." That somehow makes<br
clear="none">sense. Then there was that extensive labor unrest. Karen Pender's<br clear="none">well-documented book, Rover SD1: The Complete Story (Crowood Press, 1998),<br clear="none">provides the most
thorough study available concerning this car's troubled<br clear="none">history. I shared a copy with the gentleman who was thinking of doing this<br clear="none">article during our discussion ("You've made my day!" he declared upon<br clear="none">seeing the Rover at the show field's entrance). Indeed, I've consistently<br clear="none">recommended that book to anyone seeking an understanding of how such a<br clear="none">disaster came about in the face of the glowing predictions that greeted the<br clear="none">SD1's introduction. Indeed, when you get into detail, it's not just one<br clear="none">thing, it's many, many things! [Note: I worked as a consumer advocate at<br clear="none">an organization co-founded by Ralph Nader and Consumer Reports, so warning<br clear="none">others about the short-comings of automotive products comes naturally --<br clear="none">regardless of any personal stake I may have in a
particular model's<br clear="none">reputation. The Sterling/Rover 800 produced an astonishing number of<br clear="none">complaints and as the person responsible for monitoring
European cars, I<br clear="none">read each and every one, also spoke with many disappointed and, yes, angry<br clear="none">owners. To this day, I've not dared own a Sterling -- but have somehow<br clear="none">managed to deal with quite a few SD1's. Both gained reputations for being<br clear="none">"difficult."]<br clear="none"><br clear="none">Finally, here's a link to what remains one of the best summaries of what<br clear="none">went wrong with this particular model Rover, written by a fellow RCC member<br clear="none">who owned another of the many dozens of lemon(?) yellow examples that made<br clear="none">it to our side of the Atlantic, but who also includes a very nice P6 3500S<br clear="none">as part of his ever-growing collection of intensely interesting (and<br clear="none">typically quirky) cars:<br clear="none"><a rel="nofollow" shape="rect" target="_blank"
href="http://www.automobilemag.com/news/autp-0704-1980-land-rover-3500-sd1-history-2/">http://www.automobilemag.com/ news/autp-0704-1980-land- rover-3500-sd1-history-2/</a><br clear="none">and<br clear="none"><a rel="nofollow" shape="rect" target="_blank" href="http://www.gq.com/story/jamie-kitman-a-man-and-his-cars-life-of-a-car-enthusiast">http://www.gq.com/story/jamie- kitman-a-man-and-his-cars- life-of-a-car-enthusiast</a><br clear="none"> The magazine containing this very funny/very sad story arrived at my door<br clear="none">one day in 2007 while nearby another Turmeric Yellow Rover SD1 was<br clear="none">masquerading as a lawn ornament, awaiting endless hours of devoted<br clear="none">attention before it went on to block the driveway of another masochistic<br clear="none">(?) owner who has yet to succeed in his effort to bring it back to life.<br clear="none">The increasingly infamous example Jamie owned was itself passed on to an<br
clear="none">enthusiast in Texas last year, IIRC. That optimistic fellow is also hoping<br clear="none">to get it back on the road someday soon. Which may be the point. It's a<br clear="none">rather challenging task, but it can be done. And I hope others among<br clear="none">Rovernet's readership will be willing to take on one of the few
surviving<br clear="none">SD1's and, by doing so, help tell the story of how what looked like a<br clear="none">surefire success story instead became a curse to many of its owners --<br clear="none">while helping in the long run to bring about the demise of what once had<br clear="none">been one of Britain's finest carmakers. It certainly could have turned out<br clear="none">differently. My own Rover runs fairly reliably at the moment and it often<br clear="none">evokes inquires along the lines of "where can I find one?" After I explain<br clear="none">in more detail the difficulties involved in SD1 ownership -- regardless of<br clear="none">the relatively low cost of initial entry -- interest typically wanes.<br clear="none"><br clear="none">Despite everything I know about these cars and the negative comments one<br clear="none">occasionally encounters, I've managed not to completely lose my own<br clear="none">enthusiasm
for owning something so different as a Rover. I certainly<br clear="none">appreciate the supportive comments and encouragement offered by club<br clear="none">members. If I part
with the SD1 someday, it will largely be due to<br clear="none">discomfort with its seating position -- it's not well-suited to my<br clear="none">particular build -- not to these other factors.<br clear="none"><br clear="none">Thanks,<br clear="none"><br clear="none">Robert<br clear="none"><br clear="none">On Fri, Aug 26, 2016 at 6:40 PM, LANCE LA CERTE PSY D via Rovernet <<br clear="none"><a rel="nofollow" shape="rect">rovernet@rovernet.org</a>> wrote:<br clear="none"><br clear="none">> First, it is obvious that Robert and others (Kent in particular) took<br clear="none">> umbrage at my comments. For that I truly apologize. I appreciate how<br clear="none">> much time and energy Robert put in to his SD1 to get it sorted out, and I<br clear="none">> suspect it is indeed a very nice ride. That being said, despite being a P6<br clear="none">> owner, I grew up in Los Angeles, where there is an abundance of Rovers<br
clear="none">> (unlike the dearth in Colorado where I now reside). I had the opportunity<br clear="none">> to drive/ride several SD1s, and none of them rose above
the moniker<br clear="none">> 'monstrosity'.<br clear="none">> I've provided some extracts from an even more extensive article<br clear="none">> <a rel="nofollow" shape="rect" target="_blank" href="http://www.aronline.co.uk/blogs/cars/rover/sd1-rover/the-cars-rover-sd1-">http://www.aronline.co.uk/ blogs/cars/rover/sd1-rover/ the-cars-rover-sd1-</a><br clear="none">> development-history/ on the SD1.<br clear="none">> Autocar magazine reported on its Rover 3500 automatic, which it ran for a<br clear="none">> year and 11,900 miles: ‘The most disappointing feature about the Car Of The<br clear="none">> Year was the sad lack of quality control during building and the minimal<br clear="none">> pre-delivery inspection. Most major fault was a gap between windscreen and<br clear="none">> pillars, which allowed in rain and draughts. Hatchback door was badly<br clear="none">> fitted, and the front doors were re-hung
and adjusted to get them to close<br clear="none">> properly and to cut down wind noise. The general fit and finish was also<br clear="none">> poor.’<br clear="none">> The weekly also disliked
‘the sadly cheap sounding clang with which the<br clear="none">> doors shut – most inappropriate for a car of this class.’<br clear="none">> Car magazine ran a similar specification SD1 for 20,000 miles. The vehicle<br clear="none">> suffered from numerous defects. The magazine added: ‘The finish in the boot<br clear="none">> annoys us to; it is carpeted, but looks more like a DIY job than something<br clear="none">> stemming from Britain’s most modern car factory…The latest bit to go on our<br clear="none">> car is the plastic cowling under the drivers seat which just fell to bits…<br clear="none">> It needs and deserves to have silly things like the wind noise eliminated,<br clear="none">> it should have a more appealing dashboard and better instrumentation, the<br clear="none">> feeble plastic bits should be replaced by good quality fittings and the<br clear="none">> cabin would benefit from more attractive
upholstery.’<br clear="none">> Autocar also ran a 2600 automatic. One of its journalists wrote: ‘Little<br clear="none">> things saddened me; the
way the fascia and instrument binnacle covering PVC<br clear="none">> material is crudely creased and stuck down at corners, the doors shut at a<br clear="none">> certain tinnyness not found on cars that cost half as much… Without a<br clear="none">> partial respray the bodywork would now be very tatty. Rattling noises from<br clear="none">> the hatchback area indicate a degree of poor breeding in a car of such good<br clear="none">> looks and distinguished pedigree.’<br clear="none">> So, that's where my apology ends relative to the SD!. Bache had some<br clear="none">> great ideas, and obviously the V8 was (and still is) a great engine, but<br clear="none">> when BLMC was in chronic chaos and pushed a car to market so poorly made,<br clear="none">> there is no comparison to the far lesser amount of work it still takes to<br clear="none">> sort out a P6. The interior alone, especially with Ambla
upholstery is<br clear="none">> far more sturdy than the cloth interior and cheap plastic which filled the<br clear="none">> cabin of the
SD1. Most every one of the SD1 owners I knew in L.A.<br clear="none">> complained about almost every electric switch in the cabin being toast.<br clear="none">> Clearly Lucas is the Prince of Darkness, but the electrics in my P6 never<br clear="none">> needed the overhaul an SD1 needs. Of course we can nitpick all day, but<br clear="none">> despite the difficulties of installing rear brake pads in the P6, there is<br clear="none">> no excuse for an "advanced" car such as the SD1 to have thrown out the<br clear="none">> DeDion rear suspension and then outiftted it with rear drum brakes!!!!<br clear="none">> Really?<br clear="none">> If nothing else this has created a spirited exchange. Again my apologies<br clear="none">> to anyone who was offended, but I for one appreciate the ability to agree<br clear="none">> to disagree. I will never tell anyone there comments are inappropriate or<br
clear="none">> uncalled for, especially when the subjective criticism is about an<br clear="none">> inanimate object. I will vociferously
condem anyone who makes<br clear="none">> inappropriate personal comments.<br clear="none">> Touche'<br clear="none">><br clear="none">> Lance La Certe, Psy.D.<br clear="none">> Belief is so often the death of reason<br clear="none">><br clear="none">><br clear="none">><br clear="none">> -------------- next part --------------<br clear="none">> An HTML attachment was scrubbed...<br clear="none">> URL: <<a rel="nofollow" shape="rect" target="_blank" href="http://rovernet.org/pipermail/rovernet_rovernet">http://rovernet.org/ pipermail/rovernet_rovernet</a>.<br clear="none">> org/attachments/20160826/ 28003c12/attachment.html><br clear="none">> ______________________________ _________________<br clear="none">> Rovernet mailing list<br clear="none">> <a rel="nofollow" shape="rect">Rovernet@rovernet.org</a><br clear="none">> <a rel="nofollow" shape="rect" target="_blank"
href="http://rovernet.org/mailman/listinfo/rovernet_rovernet.org">http://rovernet.org/mailman/ listinfo/rovernet_rovernet.org</a><br clear="none">><br clear="none">-------------- next part --------------<br clear="none">An HTML attachment was scrubbed...<br clear="none"></div></div>URL: <<a rel="nofollow" shape="rect" target="_blank" href="http://rovernet.org/pipermail/rovernet_rovernet.org/attachments/20160829/860e9533/attachment.html">http://rovernet.org/ pipermail/rovernet_rovernet. org/attachments/20160829/ 860e9533/attachment.html</a>><span class=""><br clear="none">______________________________ _________________<br clear="none">Rovernet mailing list<br clear="none"><a rel="nofollow" shape="rect">Rovernet@rovernet.org</a><br clear="none"><a rel="nofollow" shape="rect" target="_blank" href="http://rovernet.org/mailman/listinfo/rovernet_rovernet.org">http://rovernet.org/mailman/ listinfo/rovernet_rovernet.org</a><br
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