<div dir="ltr">Or you may have an "older" master cylinder ["new" but long-time on the shelf] that's not cooperative....ie., the piston is "stuck" in the bore.<br clear="all"><div><div dir="ltr" class="gmail_signature" data-smartmail="gmail_signature"><div dir="ltr"><div><div dir="ltr"><div dir="ltr"><div dir="ltr"><div dir="ltr"><div dir="ltr"><div dir="ltr"><div><div dir="ltr"><br></div><div dir="ltr">Charles Kellogg</div><div dir="ltr">Director of Restorations<br><div>Dare Britannia, Ltd.</div><div>1043 Kaiser Rd. SW, Unit C</div><div>Olympia, WA 98512, USA</div></div></div><div dir="ltr"><div><div><a href="http://www.darebritannia.com/" target="_blank">http://www.darebritannia.com/</a></div><div><br></div><div><p class="MsoNormal"><i><span style="font-family:"Times New Roman",serif">Thank you for your enquiry for our parts and services. We offer the highest-quality spare parts for the vintage Land -Rover. Our staff is minuscule while the demand for rare and “unobtainable” parts for early Land-Rovers is relentless. While your concern is important to us, our ability to respond to each and every enquiry may be limited and stocks of many items are critically low.. We are primarily a restoration-based enterprise but when we have a surplus of a given item, we are able to offer excess stocks to our dedicated clients. If your need is urgent, we encourage you to contact us by phone, in person. Leaving a message is rarely effective, so we recommend direct contact. With many buildings full of parts, it is not always easy to locate obscure items, and the process is often time consuming. We hope you understand. Please provide </span><b style="font-family:"Times New Roman",serif">complete </b><span style="font-family:"Times New Roman",serif">details of your exact model including year, wheelbase, which side drive, engine, Country of origin, etc. When giving part numbers, please also state the catalogue number (typically found on the front cover). We appreciate your understanding and will do all we can to help.</span></i><font face="Times New Roman, serif"><i> </i><span></span></font></p><p class="MsoNormal"><font face="Times New Roman, serif"><br></font></p></div><div>Voice 360-866-2254</div><div><br></div></div><div><br></div><div><img src="http://darebritanniarestorations.files.wordpress.com/2013/09/dare-britannia-logo.jpg?w=625" alt="New Logo" width="420" height="235"><br><br></div>
</div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div><br></div><br><div class="gmail_quote"><div dir="ltr" class="gmail_attr">On Mon, Aug 3, 2020 at 12:00 PM <<a href="mailto:rovernet-request@rovernet.org">rovernet-request@rovernet.org</a>> wrote:<br></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">Send Rovernet mailing list submissions to<br>
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<br>
<br>
Today's Topics:<br>
<br>
1. Re: 3500s brake saga (Peter King)<br>
2. 1967 TC2000 P6B Dunlop brake servo issue (Gordon Reddy)<br>
3. Re: 3500s brake saga, Vol 86, Issue 3 (james Dolan)<br>
4. Re: 3500s brake saga, Vol 86, Issue 3 (Peter King)<br>
5. Re: 1967 TC2000 P6B Dunlop brake servo issue (Vern Inkspot)<br>
6. Re: 1967 TC2000 P6B Dunlop brake servo issue (Vern Inkspot)<br>
<br>
<br>
----------------------------------------------------------------------<br>
<br>
Message: 1<br>
Date: Mon, 3 Aug 2020 14:06:53 -0400<br>
From: Peter King <<a href="mailto:peter@king-co.com" target="_blank">peter@king-co.com</a>><br>
To: <a href="mailto:magnet@ican.net" target="_blank">magnet@ican.net</a><br>
Cc: Rovernet <<a href="mailto:rovernet@rovernet.org" target="_blank">rovernet@rovernet.org</a>><br>
Subject: Re: [Rovernet] 3500s brake saga<br>
Message-ID: <<a href="mailto:259C07BC-2D57-4268-A8FB-39BF2AF213DD@king-co.com" target="_blank">259C07BC-2D57-4268-A8FB-39BF2AF213DD@king-co.com</a>><br>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"<br>
<br>
Hi Bill. It sounds so much like a pinched hose, but when all of the hoses are removed, the brakes stay locked up. The master is not releasing. So I am now suspecting the small valve in the master may need lubricating. I will check the pushrod as well.<br>
<br>
Many thanks<br>
<br>
Peter<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
Peter King + Company<br>
10 Derby Square<br>
Suite N2<br>
Salem, MA 01970<br>
617-292-7877 x302<br>
<a href="http://www.king-co.com" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">www.king-co.com</a><br>
<a href="http://www.facebook.com/pkingco" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">www.facebook.com/pkingco</a><br>
<br>
> On Aug 3, 2020, at 1:56 PM, <a href="mailto:magnet@ican.net" target="_blank">magnet@ican.net</a> wrote:<br>
> <br>
> Hi Peter,<br>
> <br>
> I've gone through the P6B brake experience too...<br>
> <br>
> One thing I remember was that one of the "new" TRW master cylinders I fitted came without a gasket between the cylinder casting and the air valve housing. This let air slowly into the "controlled " side of the servo vacuum chamber and thus prevented the brakes from staying released fully.<br>
> <br>
> I also had a problem with a vacuum hose that got soft when it got hot, and partially collapsed under vacuum, keeping the vacuum from getting to the controlled (front) side of the servo diaphragm, preventing the brakes from releasing promptly when one took one's foot off the pedal. I'm sure you used proper vacuum hose -- fuel hose won't cut it. I was unable to find vacuum hose of the correct size, and had to use copper tubing. This was a PITA to bend, but certainly has made the brakes more responsive.<br>
> <br>
> I don't know if the kink you mention in the reservoir hose would be enough to prevent over-pressure in the system from sending fluid back into the reservoir, but, again, hoses get softer when hot and the kink might get worse when hot...<br>
> <br>
> I'm sure you've checked the amount of free movement at the master cylinder push rod with the brakes released... To some extent this is a function of the thickness of the gasket between the m/cyl and the casting it mounts on, but I rather doubt this is the problem, as I can't see how it would be temperature dependent. I'd still look for ways that air could leak into the vacuum control circuit.<br>
> <br>
> Good luck, keep us posted on how you get on!<br>
> <br>
> Cheers,<br>
> <br>
> Bill Daddis<br>
> <br>
> <br>
> <br>
> On 03-Aug-20 12:46 PM, Peter King via Rovernet wrote:<br>
>> <br>
>> I Rovernetters. I?ve posted this on the Federal Rovers group on Facebook, so if you are on there this is repetitive.<br>
>> <br>
>> I have been trouble shooting problems with my 71 3500s brakes. I?ve installed a new master cylinder, rebuilt the servo, replaced the flexible lines, tested all the vacuum lines for leaks, replaced the check valve at the servo and both seals, rebuilt the servo 3 times. Flushed and bled the lines multiple times, following the procedure of both rear and front left side together, then right side, then close up the rear. All bleeding done into jars of fluid. <br>
>> <br>
>> When I start the car cold, I have equal vacuum pressure on both sides of the servo. Brakes work well, hold and release when the pedal is depressed. BUT, what seems to be happening is that as the engine heats up, pressure builds in the system and the master cylinder air valve gets forced open. No spring would be strong enough to compress it. As a result, the vacuum from the master gets weaker, as air is let into the servo. And the brakes seize. <br>
>> <br>
>> So the questions is, what could be causing this? The master is new, so unless it arrived faulty I am not suspecting it. yet. I've replaced the flexible lines. I get fluid bleeding fine through all 3 bleeders. I do have a kink in the master fluid reservoir inlet line... could it be preventing the master to recover quickly, and therefore cause a lock? could it be that as the fluid heats up, it has no place to expand (back to the reservoir--I don't know if it does this normally) and is causing the lock? What else am I not thinking of?<br>
>> <br>
>> Thanks for any thoughts.<br>
>> <br>
>> Peter<br>
>> <br>
>> <br>
>> <br>
>> <br>
>> <br>
>> <br>
>> <br>
>> Peter King + Company<br>
>> 10 Derby Square<br>
>> Suite N2<br>
>> Salem, MA 01970<br>
>> 617-292-7877 x302<br>
>> <a href="http://www.king-co.com" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">www.king-co.com</a> <<a href="http://www.king-co.com/" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">http://www.king-co.com/</a>><br>
>> <a href="http://www.facebook.com/pkingco" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">www.facebook.com/pkingco</a> <<a href="http://www.facebook.com/pkingco" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">http://www.facebook.com/pkingco</a>><br>
>> <br>
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>> _______________________________________________<br>
>> Rovernet mailing list<br>
>> <a href="mailto:Rovernet@rovernet.org" target="_blank">Rovernet@rovernet.org</a> <mailto:<a href="mailto:Rovernet@rovernet.org" target="_blank">Rovernet@rovernet.org</a>><br>
>> <a href="http://rovernet.org/mailman/listinfo/rovernet_rovernet.org" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">http://rovernet.org/mailman/listinfo/rovernet_rovernet.org</a> <<a href="http://rovernet.org/mailman/listinfo/rovernet_rovernet.org" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">http://rovernet.org/mailman/listinfo/rovernet_rovernet.org</a>><br>
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Message: 2<br>
Date: Mon, 3 Aug 2020 11:14:45 -0700<br>
From: "Gordon Reddy" <<a href="mailto:gordreddy@telus.net" target="_blank">gordreddy@telus.net</a>><br>
To: "Rovernet" <<a href="mailto:rovernet@rovernet.org" target="_blank">rovernet@rovernet.org</a>><br>
Subject: [Rovernet] 1967 TC2000 P6B Dunlop brake servo issue<br>
Message-ID: <C59F12E75E0E41F8ABF790C4271D1BC6@DESKTOP0B4TDSH><br>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"<br>
<br>
Hi All,<br>
I just replaced the servo on my TC with a CLASSIC PART # LE10117 - BRAKE SERVO (BOOSTER) KIT 8 INCH). The old one was quite full of brake fluid. Asides from having to modify the existing mounting bracket using the supplied one everything went well, the brakes bled well and all is good. I can?t take it out for a drive yet but when moving it around the shop it seemed like there wasn?t much ?boost? happening. There is vacuum, a change in engine note when the pedal is pressed but a very hard pedal. I suppose it could be a matter of getting out for a drive and cleaning up the surfaces of the discs, but while its in the shop does anyone have a suggestion on what to check?<br>
Sure idles better when its not getting a brake fluid injection LOL.<br>
Cheers,<br>
Gord <br>
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Message: 3<br>
Date: Mon, 3 Aug 2020 14:23:14 -0400<br>
From: james Dolan <<a href="mailto:jhamdolan@gmail.com" target="_blank">jhamdolan@gmail.com</a>><br>
To: <a href="mailto:rovernet@rovernet.org" target="_blank">rovernet@rovernet.org</a><br>
Subject: Re: [Rovernet] 3500s brake saga, Vol 86, Issue 3<br>
Message-ID:<br>
<<a href="mailto:CAJaQSOi66grwckeCZMjemzxu-guZ7O4Xodez37XVFNMoSp53Nw@mail.gmail.com" target="_blank">CAJaQSOi66grwckeCZMjemzxu-guZ7O4Xodez37XVFNMoSp53Nw@mail.gmail.com</a>><br>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8"<br>
<br>
Is there a check valve associated with this? That's the first place<br>
I'd look, if so.<br>
I'd also consider that time might be a factor, as well as temperature.<br>
If it was a large problem, it would be there right away. It sounds<br>
like it is cumulative, I wish you luck, as it sounds like the fault is<br>
subtle, but with big consequences.<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
------------------------------<br>
<br>
Message: 4<br>
Date: Mon, 3 Aug 2020 14:28:52 -0400<br>
From: Peter King <<a href="mailto:peter@king-co.com" target="_blank">peter@king-co.com</a>><br>
To: Rovernet <<a href="mailto:rovernet@rovernet.org" target="_blank">rovernet@rovernet.org</a>><br>
Cc: james Dolan <<a href="mailto:jhamdolan@gmail.com" target="_blank">jhamdolan@gmail.com</a>><br>
Subject: Re: [Rovernet] 3500s brake saga, Vol 86, Issue 3<br>
Message-ID: <<a href="mailto:C66CF22E-6FA2-41A5-825C-D213BFC22190@king-co.com" target="_blank">C66CF22E-6FA2-41A5-825C-D213BFC22190@king-co.com</a>><br>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"<br>
<br>
Thanks, James.<br>
<br>
Yes, I replaced the check valve along with the seals to the vacuum canister. The check valve sits on the can end of the vacuum line from the engine.<br>
<br>
Peter<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
Peter King + Company<br>
10 Derby Square<br>
Suite N2<br>
Salem, MA 01970<br>
617-292-7877 x302<br>
<a href="http://www.king-co.com" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">www.king-co.com</a><br>
<a href="http://www.facebook.com/pkingco" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">www.facebook.com/pkingco</a><br>
<br>
> On Aug 3, 2020, at 2:23 PM, james Dolan via Rovernet <<a href="mailto:rovernet@rovernet.org" target="_blank">rovernet@rovernet.org</a>> wrote:<br>
> <br>
> Is there a check valve associated with this? That's the first place<br>
> I'd look, if so.<br>
> I'd also consider that time might be a factor, as well as temperature.<br>
> If it was a large problem, it would be there right away. It sounds<br>
> like it is cumulative, I wish you luck, as it sounds like the fault is<br>
> subtle, but with big consequences.<br>
> <br>
> _______________________________________________<br>
> Rovernet mailing list<br>
> <a href="mailto:Rovernet@rovernet.org" target="_blank">Rovernet@rovernet.org</a><br>
> <a href="http://rovernet.org/mailman/listinfo/rovernet_rovernet.org" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">http://rovernet.org/mailman/listinfo/rovernet_rovernet.org</a><br>
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Message: 5<br>
Date: Mon, 3 Aug 2020 11:57:27 -0700<br>
From: Vern Inkspot <<a href="mailto:vern@inkspotco.com" target="_blank">vern@inkspotco.com</a>><br>
To: Rovernet <<a href="mailto:rovernet@rovernet.org" target="_blank">rovernet@rovernet.org</a>><br>
Subject: Re: [Rovernet] 1967 TC2000 P6B Dunlop brake servo issue<br>
Message-ID: <<a href="mailto:3B3E6249-B400-47BD-8F2A-0EF02A838C1C@inkspotco.com" target="_blank">3B3E6249-B400-47BD-8F2A-0EF02A838C1C@inkspotco.com</a>><br>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"<br>
<br>
The LE10117 has a boost ratio of 3:1, the OEM ratio is 4.25:1. So you will have a firmer pedal than stock. Assuming you still have the old unit, you might consider sleeving & rebuilding it. Was it the 5.5? servo originally?<br>
<br>
Yours<br>
Vern<br>
<br>
> On Aug 3, 2020, at 11:14 AM, Gordon Reddy via Rovernet <<a href="mailto:rovernet@rovernet.org" target="_blank">rovernet@rovernet.org</a>> wrote:<br>
> <br>
> Hi All,<br>
> I just replaced the servo on my TC with a CLASSIC PART # LE10117 - BRAKE SERVO (BOOSTER) KIT 8 INCH). The old one was quite full of brake fluid. Asides from having to modify the existing mounting bracket using the supplied one everything went well, the brakes bled well and all is good. I can?t take it out for a drive yet but when moving it around the shop it seemed like there wasn?t much ?boost? happening. There is vacuum, a change in engine note when the pedal is pressed but a very hard pedal. I suppose it could be a matter of getting out for a drive and cleaning up the surfaces of the discs, but while its in the shop does anyone have a suggestion on what to check?<br>
> Sure idles better when its not getting a brake fluid injection LOL.<br>
> Cheers,<br>
> Gord <br>
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> _______________________________________________<br>
> Rovernet mailing list<br>
> <a href="mailto:Rovernet@rovernet.org" target="_blank">Rovernet@rovernet.org</a><br>
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<br>
<br>
<a href="http://inkspotco.com" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">inkspotco.com</a> ? 250 864 5619 ? <a href="mailto:in@inkspotco.com" target="_blank">in@inkspotco.com</a><br>
<br>
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Message: 6<br>
Date: Mon, 3 Aug 2020 11:59:49 -0700<br>
From: Vern Inkspot <<a href="mailto:vern@inkspotco.com" target="_blank">vern@inkspotco.com</a>><br>
To: Rovernet <<a href="mailto:rovernet@rovernet.org" target="_blank">rovernet@rovernet.org</a>><br>
Subject: Re: [Rovernet] 1967 TC2000 P6B Dunlop brake servo issue<br>
Message-ID: <<a href="mailto:108E9BFC-8941-4020-AE34-FFE562460E7C@inkspotco.com" target="_blank">108E9BFC-8941-4020-AE34-FFE562460E7C@inkspotco.com</a>><br>
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And to be clear, I don't know how much firmer ? I?m not saying all is well.<br>
<br>
Yours<br>
Vern<br>
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<br>
<br>
> On Aug 3, 2020, at 11:57 AM, Vern Inkspot via Rovernet <<a href="mailto:rovernet@rovernet.org" target="_blank">rovernet@rovernet.org</a>> wrote:<br>
> <br>
> The LE10117 has a boost ratio of 3:1, the OEM ratio is 4.25:1. So you will have a firmer pedal than stock. Assuming you still have the old unit, you might consider sleeving & rebuilding it. Was it the 5.5? servo originally?<br>
> <br>
> Yours<br>
> Vern<br>
> <br>
>> On Aug 3, 2020, at 11:14 AM, Gordon Reddy via Rovernet <<a href="mailto:rovernet@rovernet.org" target="_blank">rovernet@rovernet.org</a>> wrote:<br>
>> <br>
>> Hi All,<br>
>> I just replaced the servo on my TC with a CLASSIC PART # LE10117 - BRAKE SERVO (BOOSTER) KIT 8 INCH). The old one was quite full of brake fluid. Asides from having to modify the existing mounting bracket using the supplied one everything went well, the brakes bled well and all is good. I can?t take it out for a drive yet but when moving it around the shop it seemed like there wasn?t much ?boost? happening. There is vacuum, a change in engine note when the pedal is pressed but a very hard pedal. I suppose it could be a matter of getting out for a drive and cleaning up the surfaces of the discs, but while its in the shop does anyone have a suggestion on what to check?<br>
>> Sure idles better when its not getting a brake fluid injection LOL.<br>
>> Cheers,<br>
>> Gord <br>
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