[Rovernet] Rovernet Digest, Vol 86, Issue 4

Kellogg, Charles charlesk at darebritannia.com
Mon Aug 3 15:36:50 EDT 2020


Or you may have an "older" master cylinder ["new" but long-time on the
shelf] that's not cooperative....ie., the piston is "stuck" in the bore.

Charles Kellogg
Director of Restorations
Dare Britannia, Ltd.
1043 Kaiser Rd. SW, Unit C
Olympia, WA  98512, USA
http://www.darebritannia.com/

*Thank you for your enquiry for our parts and services. We offer the
highest-quality spare parts for the vintage Land -Rover. Our staff is
minuscule while the demand for rare and “unobtainable” parts for early
Land-Rovers is relentless. While your concern is important to us, our
ability to respond to each and every enquiry may be limited and stocks of
many items are critically low.. We are primarily a restoration-based
enterprise but when we have a surplus of a given  item, we are able to
offer excess stocks to our dedicated clients. If your need is urgent, we
encourage you to contact us by phone, in person. Leaving a message is
rarely effective, so we recommend direct contact. With many buildings full
of parts, it is not always easy to locate obscure items, and the process is
often time consuming. We hope you understand. Please
provide complete details of your exact model including year, wheelbase,
which side drive, engine, Country of origin, etc. When giving part numbers,
please also state the catalogue number (typically found on the front
cover).  We appreciate your understanding and will do all we can to help.*


Voice 360-866-2254


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On Mon, Aug 3, 2020 at 12:00 PM <rovernet-request at rovernet.org> wrote:

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> Today's Topics:
>
>    1. Re: 3500s brake saga (Peter King)
>    2. 1967 TC2000 P6B Dunlop brake servo issue (Gordon Reddy)
>    3. Re: 3500s brake saga, Vol 86, Issue 3 (james Dolan)
>    4. Re: 3500s brake saga, Vol 86, Issue 3 (Peter King)
>    5. Re: 1967 TC2000 P6B Dunlop brake servo issue (Vern Inkspot)
>    6. Re: 1967 TC2000 P6B Dunlop brake servo issue (Vern Inkspot)
>
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Message: 1
> Date: Mon, 3 Aug 2020 14:06:53 -0400
> From: Peter King <peter at king-co.com>
> To: magnet at ican.net
> Cc: Rovernet <rovernet at rovernet.org>
> Subject: Re: [Rovernet] 3500s brake saga
> Message-ID: <259C07BC-2D57-4268-A8FB-39BF2AF213DD at king-co.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
>
> Hi Bill. It sounds so much like a pinched hose, but when all of the hoses
> are removed, the brakes stay locked up. The master is not releasing. So I
> am now suspecting the small valve in the master may need lubricating. I
> will check the pushrod as well.
>
> Many thanks
>
> Peter
>
>
>
>
> Peter King + Company
> 10 Derby Square
> Suite N2
> Salem, MA 01970
> 617-292-7877 x302
> www.king-co.com
> www.facebook.com/pkingco
>
> > On Aug 3, 2020, at 1:56 PM, magnet at ican.net wrote:
> >
> > Hi Peter,
> >
> > I've gone through the P6B brake experience too...
> >
> > One thing I remember was that one of the "new" TRW master cylinders I
> fitted came without a gasket between the cylinder casting and the air valve
> housing.  This let air slowly into the "controlled " side of the servo
> vacuum chamber and thus prevented the brakes from staying released fully.
> >
> > I also had a problem with a vacuum hose that got soft when it got hot,
> and partially collapsed under vacuum, keeping the vacuum from getting to
> the controlled (front) side of the servo diaphragm, preventing the brakes
> from releasing promptly when one took one's foot off the pedal.  I'm sure
> you used proper vacuum hose -- fuel hose won't cut it.  I was unable to
> find vacuum hose of the correct size, and had to use copper tubing.  This
> was a PITA to bend, but certainly has made the brakes more responsive.
> >
> > I don't know if the kink you mention in the reservoir hose would be
> enough to prevent over-pressure in the system from sending fluid back into
> the reservoir, but, again, hoses get softer when hot and the kink might get
> worse when hot...
> >
> > I'm sure you've checked the amount of free movement at the master
> cylinder push rod with the brakes released... To some extent this is a
> function of the  thickness of the gasket between the m/cyl and the casting
> it mounts on, but I rather doubt this is the problem, as I can't see how it
> would be temperature dependent.  I'd still look for ways that air could
> leak into the vacuum control circuit.
> >
> > Good luck, keep us posted on how you get on!
> >
> > Cheers,
> >
> > Bill  Daddis
> >
> >
> >
> > On 03-Aug-20 12:46 PM, Peter King via Rovernet wrote:
> >>
> >> I Rovernetters. I?ve posted this on the Federal Rovers group on
> Facebook, so if you are on there this is repetitive.
> >>
> >> I have been trouble shooting problems with my 71 3500s brakes. I?ve
> installed a new master cylinder, rebuilt the servo, replaced the flexible
> lines, tested all the vacuum lines for leaks, replaced the check valve at
> the servo and both seals, rebuilt the servo 3 times. Flushed and bled the
> lines multiple times, following the procedure of both rear and front left
> side together, then right side, then close up the rear. All bleeding done
> into jars of fluid.
> >>
> >> When I start the car cold, I have equal vacuum pressure on both sides
> of the servo. Brakes work well, hold and release when the pedal is
> depressed.  BUT, what seems to be happening is that as the engine heats up,
> pressure builds in the system and the master cylinder air valve gets forced
> open. No spring would be strong enough to compress it. As a result, the
> vacuum from the master gets weaker, as air is let into the servo. And the
> brakes seize.
> >>
> >> So the questions is, what could be causing this? The master is new, so
> unless it arrived faulty I am not suspecting it. yet. I've replaced the
> flexible lines. I get fluid bleeding fine through all 3 bleeders. I do have
> a kink in the master fluid reservoir inlet line... could it be preventing
> the master to recover quickly, and therefore cause a lock? could it be that
> as the fluid heats up,  it has no place to expand (back to the reservoir--I
> don't know if it does this normally)  and is causing the lock? What else am
> I not thinking of?
> >>
> >> Thanks for any thoughts.
> >>
> >> Peter
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> Peter King + Company
> >> 10 Derby Square
> >> Suite N2
> >> Salem, MA 01970
> >> 617-292-7877 x302
> >> www.king-co.com <http://www.king-co.com/>
> >> www.facebook.com/pkingco <http://www.facebook.com/pkingco>
> >>
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> >> _______________________________________________
> >> Rovernet mailing list
> >> Rovernet at rovernet.org <mailto:Rovernet at rovernet.org>
> >> http://rovernet.org/mailman/listinfo/rovernet_rovernet.org <
> http://rovernet.org/mailman/listinfo/rovernet_rovernet.org>
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> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 2
> Date: Mon, 3 Aug 2020 11:14:45 -0700
> From: "Gordon Reddy" <gordreddy at telus.net>
> To: "Rovernet" <rovernet at rovernet.org>
> Subject: [Rovernet] 1967 TC2000 P6B Dunlop brake servo issue
> Message-ID: <C59F12E75E0E41F8ABF790C4271D1BC6 at DESKTOP0B4TDSH>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
>
> Hi All,
>    I just replaced the servo  on my TC with a CLASSIC PART # LE10117 -
> BRAKE SERVO (BOOSTER) KIT 8 INCH). The old one was quite full of brake
> fluid. Asides from having to modify the existing mounting bracket using the
> supplied one everything went well, the brakes bled well and all is good. I
> can?t take it out for a drive yet but when moving it around the shop it
> seemed like there wasn?t much ?boost? happening. There is vacuum, a change
> in engine note when the pedal is pressed but a very hard pedal. I suppose
> it could be a matter of getting out for a drive and cleaning up the
> surfaces of the discs, but while its in the shop does anyone have a
> suggestion on what to check?
>    Sure idles better when its not getting a brake fluid injection LOL.
> Cheers,
> Gord
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> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 3
> Date: Mon, 3 Aug 2020 14:23:14 -0400
> From: james Dolan <jhamdolan at gmail.com>
> To: rovernet at rovernet.org
> Subject: Re: [Rovernet] 3500s brake saga, Vol 86, Issue 3
> Message-ID:
>         <
> CAJaQSOi66grwckeCZMjemzxu-guZ7O4Xodez37XVFNMoSp53Nw at mail.gmail.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8"
>
> Is there a check valve associated with this? That's the first place
> I'd look, if so.
> I'd also consider that time might be a factor, as well as temperature.
> If it was a large problem, it would be there right away. It sounds
> like it is cumulative, I wish you luck, as it sounds like the fault is
> subtle, but with big consequences.
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 4
> Date: Mon, 3 Aug 2020 14:28:52 -0400
> From: Peter King <peter at king-co.com>
> To: Rovernet <rovernet at rovernet.org>
> Cc: james Dolan <jhamdolan at gmail.com>
> Subject: Re: [Rovernet] 3500s brake saga, Vol 86, Issue 3
> Message-ID: <C66CF22E-6FA2-41A5-825C-D213BFC22190 at king-co.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
>
> Thanks, James.
>
> Yes, I replaced the check valve along with the seals to the vacuum
> canister. The check valve sits on the can end of the vacuum line from the
> engine.
>
> Peter
>
>
>
>
> Peter King + Company
> 10 Derby Square
> Suite N2
> Salem, MA 01970
> 617-292-7877 x302
> www.king-co.com
> www.facebook.com/pkingco
>
> > On Aug 3, 2020, at 2:23 PM, james Dolan via Rovernet <
> rovernet at rovernet.org> wrote:
> >
> > Is there a check valve associated with this? That's the first place
> > I'd look, if so.
> > I'd also consider that time might be a factor, as well as temperature.
> > If it was a large problem, it would be there right away. It sounds
> > like it is cumulative, I wish you luck, as it sounds like the fault is
> > subtle, but with big consequences.
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Rovernet mailing list
> > Rovernet at rovernet.org
> > http://rovernet.org/mailman/listinfo/rovernet_rovernet.org
>
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>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 5
> Date: Mon, 3 Aug 2020 11:57:27 -0700
> From: Vern Inkspot <vern at inkspotco.com>
> To: Rovernet <rovernet at rovernet.org>
> Subject: Re: [Rovernet] 1967 TC2000 P6B Dunlop brake servo issue
> Message-ID: <3B3E6249-B400-47BD-8F2A-0EF02A838C1C at inkspotco.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
>
> The LE10117 has a boost ratio of 3:1, the OEM ratio is 4.25:1. So you will
> have a firmer pedal than stock. Assuming you still have the old unit, you
> might consider sleeving & rebuilding it. Was it the 5.5? servo originally?
>
> Yours
> Vern
>
> > On Aug 3, 2020, at 11:14 AM, Gordon Reddy via Rovernet <
> rovernet at rovernet.org> wrote:
> >
> > Hi All,
> >   I just replaced the servo  on my TC with a CLASSIC PART # LE10117 -
> BRAKE SERVO (BOOSTER) KIT 8 INCH). The old one was quite full of brake
> fluid. Asides from having to modify the existing mounting bracket using the
> supplied one everything went well, the brakes bled well and all is good. I
> can?t take it out for a drive yet but when moving it around the shop it
> seemed like there wasn?t much ?boost? happening. There is vacuum, a change
> in engine note when the pedal is pressed but a very hard pedal. I suppose
> it could be a matter of getting out for a drive and cleaning up the
> surfaces of the discs, but while its in the shop does anyone have a
> suggestion on what to check?
> >   Sure idles better when its not getting a brake fluid injection LOL.
> > Cheers,
> > Gord
> > -------------- next part --------------
> > An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
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> http://rovernet.org/pipermail/rovernet_rovernet.org/attachments/20200803/ef3888fd/attachment.html
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Rovernet mailing list
> > Rovernet at rovernet.org
> > http://rovernet.org/mailman/listinfo/rovernet_rovernet.org
>
>
> inkspotco.com ? 250 864 5619 ? in at inkspotco.com
>
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>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 6
> Date: Mon, 3 Aug 2020 11:59:49 -0700
> From: Vern Inkspot <vern at inkspotco.com>
> To: Rovernet <rovernet at rovernet.org>
> Subject: Re: [Rovernet] 1967 TC2000 P6B Dunlop brake servo issue
> Message-ID: <108E9BFC-8941-4020-AE34-FFE562460E7C at inkspotco.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
>
> And to be clear, I don't know how much firmer ? I?m not saying all is well.
>
> Yours
> Vern
>
>
>
> > On Aug 3, 2020, at 11:57 AM, Vern Inkspot via Rovernet <
> rovernet at rovernet.org> wrote:
> >
> > The LE10117 has a boost ratio of 3:1, the OEM ratio is 4.25:1. So you
> will have a firmer pedal than stock. Assuming you still have the old unit,
> you might consider sleeving & rebuilding it. Was it the 5.5? servo
> originally?
> >
> > Yours
> > Vern
> >
> >> On Aug 3, 2020, at 11:14 AM, Gordon Reddy via Rovernet <
> rovernet at rovernet.org> wrote:
> >>
> >> Hi All,
> >>  I just replaced the servo  on my TC with a CLASSIC PART # LE10117 -
> BRAKE SERVO (BOOSTER) KIT 8 INCH). The old one was quite full of brake
> fluid. Asides from having to modify the existing mounting bracket using the
> supplied one everything went well, the brakes bled well and all is good. I
> can?t take it out for a drive yet but when moving it around the shop it
> seemed like there wasn?t much ?boost? happening. There is vacuum, a change
> in engine note when the pedal is pressed but a very hard pedal. I suppose
> it could be a matter of getting out for a drive and cleaning up the
> surfaces of the discs, but while its in the shop does anyone have a
> suggestion on what to check?
> >>  Sure idles better when its not getting a brake fluid injection LOL.
> >> Cheers,
> >> Gord
> >> -------------- next part --------------
> >> An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
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> http://rovernet.org/pipermail/rovernet_rovernet.org/attachments/20200803/ef3888fd/attachment.html
> >
> >> _______________________________________________
> >> Rovernet mailing list
> >> Rovernet at rovernet.org
> >> http://rovernet.org/mailman/listinfo/rovernet_rovernet.org
> >
> >
> > inkspotco.com ? 250 864 5619 ? in at inkspotco.com
> >
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> > Rovernet at rovernet.org
> > http://rovernet.org/mailman/listinfo/rovernet_rovernet.org
>
>
> inkspotco.com ? 250 864 5619 ? in at inkspotco.com
>
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>
> ------------------------------
>
> Subject: Digest Footer
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> ------------------------------
>
> End of Rovernet Digest, Vol 86, Issue 4
> ***************************************
>
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